BATTERIES AND CONVERTERS
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:53:10 -0500
From: Patrick Flowers <patri63#ibm.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Motorhome Battery Cutout
john nepper, jr. wrote:
>
> I have a problem with the auxiliary battery in my '76 Palm Beach. It seems to drain itself after only a week or so... After several "dective" tries I've decided to just put a shutoff switch on the battery while it's in storage.
>
> Problem: The switch I bought says to install it on the negative side of the circut, is there any reason not to put it on the positive side?
John,
You didn't say what type of switch it was, but many of these are a bare knife switch. By putting it on the negative side of the battery, if anything conductive touches the switch and gets grounded, it will not cause a problem. If the above occurs with the switch mounted on the positive side, the best outcome will be a nasty spark and an ensuing fire would be very likely.
Your problem is "parasitic" drain on the electric system. In the GMC's, this is usually a result of added "extras". Sound systems seem to be the worst culprits. You didn't outline what type of detective work you did, but the best approach is to turn everyting off and unplug everything you can from the 12V system. Next remove all the fuses(be sure to label each one or you'll have lots of fun getting them all back in the right slots) and disconnect the negative cables on both the motor and aux batteries. Connect an ammeter between the aux battery and negative cable. Hopefully, it will read zero. If not, then you probably have a short somewhere between the battery and the fuse panel (or someones tapped onto the cable before the fuse panel - it happens). Then insert and remove one fuse at a time noting which ones result in a reading on the ammeter. That will tell you which circuits are causing the problem. Once you know which circuit the culprit's on, you can disconnect the accessories on those circuits one at a time, noting the change in indication on the ammeter.
This is a long process and may be more trouble than it's worth since you've already decided to install the disconnect.
Hope this helps,
Patrick
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:07:35 -0500
From: Ralph Edelbach <edelbach#tcnj.edu>
Subject: GMC: Battery info?
Took the "new" '74 26 foot Glacier out for a short test run last Saturday, the sun was out for a while in NJ, and when it stalled at a stop sign, the battery could not spin the engine fast enough to get it restarted. Even with the switch in the "boost" position, it wasn't sufficient so a quick call to my wife who arrived and, after hooking up the jumper cables, the mighty 455 roared back into life. Time to replace one or more batteries I suppose.
My question pertains to whether it is necessary to replace both batteries up front with the same size ones or can I just buy a new engine battery? Like at least one other person, I haven't had a whole lot of luck following the electrical diagrams in the manuals yet but I intend to study them more. I have a lot of time since I'm still working and have not yet retired. The front battery tray was completely redone just before I bought the coach last week so everything appears to be in very good shape.
Any help will be greatly appreciated such as a good brand and size.
Happy motoring
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:36:29 -0800
From: Phil Swanson <phil#CHTREE.com>
Subject: GMC: Battery Locations
Hello fellow GMCers,
With all this message traffic about batteries and locations, I decided to check out my newly acquired 1973 Canyon Lands closer with respect to batteries and cables. I have the two golf cart 6 Volt types in series in the front on the passenger side and one commercial battery back in the generator bay but I have no generator however. The battery in the back is functioning strictly for reserve capacity. One of the horrors I have however is the positive battery cable that runs underneath the coach on the left side to hook up the generator battery. As I inspected the insulation on the cable, I saw places that are chaffing on the frame and taped, but thankfully not worn through underneath. It would create one heck of a mess and/or fire if this cable decided to short out. Suggest if condition of cable is unknown, that you inspect the insulation and replace the cable or disconnect that back battery when not in use. I am going to invest in one of those little shut off switches at the battery post so I can electrically disconnect it and if and when I ever need it, I can tighten the green knob and restore a connection. I do not like the idea of this cable rubbing on sharp twists and bends in the frame. Maybe installing one of those outer jackets for wire looms often seen on custom installations, like on hot rods, would help. Anything to keep the cable from wearing through and creating a wild short. The bad thing about the stock configuration that I have is that is always live and a short waiting to happen. Maybe I will just get rid of the battery in the back since I have no generator. I could eventually get a Honda generator with rope start and get rid of the battery and the added weight in the rear where the GMCs are too heavy anyway and eliminate the possibility of catastrophic failure and possible loss of the coach.
Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:47:48 +0000
From: John Szalay <john.szalay#postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: RE: Battery locations
At 09:10 PM 1/26/98 +0000, you wrote:
>John:
>
>For whatever it's worth, I have a 78 Royale. Like you, I have two batteries on the right side of the engine compartment. However, my house battery is on the left side of the engine compartment.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>> I've got a 1977 Royale with three batteries. Two 12 V batteries (starting and House) in the front engine compartment on a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the Onan generator compartment for starting the generator.
>>
>> I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same charging circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving insufficient charge.
That is true ONLY IF the batteries are connected in Parallel. If they are connected in series, its just as if they were one large battery. after all, your 12volt battery is a series of small cells connected in series to give you 12 volts.
>>it would seem I can't/shouldn't use the existing charging circuit, which now charges the two front batteries simultaneously, with a 12V battery on one terminal of the isolator and two 6v batteries on the other terminal.
>>
yes you can.
+12- +6-+6-
The biggest problem is where to mount the large 6 volt batteries.
I also have 3 batteries in my 73, one for the engine, one for the house 12V
and one in the back for the Onan genset.
>
> ----------
> > From: Robert Dinsmore <bobdnmr1#gte.net>
> > To: gmcmotorhome#mailinglists.org
> > Subject: Re: GMC: RE: Battery locations
> > Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:20 AM
> >
> > John:
> >
> > I removed the grill and welded a battery tray to the crossmember directly in front of the radiator/air conditioning condenser. Then installed two Trojan 105 6 volt golf cart batteries in series rated at 200 amp hours. Reinstalled the grill with stainless steel wing nuts and lock washers so I could easily remove the grill for battery servicing.
> >
> > Battery cables were kept short to minimize voltage drop and for the most part all wiring to the inverter/charger is stock and left unchanged.
> >
> > Then I replaced the original 12 volt starting battery and house battery (located on the passenger side) with another two golf cart batteries that are used for only starting loads (1200 cold cranking amps that tell that 455 whose boss at 20 below zero in Wisconsin)
> >
> > The 6 KW Onan has a small starting battery adjacent to it so there is no reason for heavy battery cables strung the length of the motorhome.
> >
> > The advantage of the 4 golf cart battery system is: #1, I can squander my battery power, and listen to the radio any time I want without fear of discharging my starting battery... #2, In a pinch I can use the starting batteries to operate the load in the house (400 amps hours available to run my VCR/TV and space heater blowers in the winter). #3, As my house batteries die from hard deep cycling, I move the starting batteries into the house battery tray and buy new starting batteries. #4, I have TRUE DEEP CYCLE batteries designed to deliver 75 amps continously, not like most 8D truck batteries that are really just big starting batteries. #5, I have lots of redundancy. #5, Since I live on a boat in the summers and use the motorhome in the winter I do a lot of poor weather driving (22,000 miles in the last two years)... The extra weight up front comes in handy in the snow(about 280 pounds for 4 batteries).
> >
> > I notice no change in engine operating temperature, but I travel in the winter as far south as Arizona, Texas, and Georgia. My plan was to duct air from the grill opening to the radiator if I encounter an overheating problem, but so far I have not found it necessary.
> >
> > I use a like setup on my sailboat, (except I have 800 amp hours), and I cruise 5 months of the year in Alaska without electrical hookup during the entire time.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > Bob
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:03:57 EST
From: davegreenberg1#juno.com (David L. Greenberg)
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Locations
Phil,
Watch out for those battery disconnects with the green knob. I installed one a couple of years ago and nothing but problems with it. It either didn't shut down all the way (One of the wags at the Carlysle show told me it allows a little voltage to creep thru to keep radio memorys working!) and sometimes it shut down when I would try to restart after getting fuel, etc.
I threw it away and installed a Knife Switch. It is much more positive and you can tell at a glance whether your batteries are in or out of the system.
Another approach is to use a rotary switch such as used on boats. In any event this works to have a theft deterrent function as well.
Rgds.
David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:03:57 EST
From: davegreenberg1#juno.com (David L. Greenberg)
Subject: GMC: Re: Battery locations
Bob,
Your battery arrangements sound ideal.
One comment to add...I have installed my grill with 4 springs. They go back to the radiator frame and I can remove and replace the grill with out tools.
I like the idea of moving weight up front and I NEVER drive in snow!
Rgds,
David Lee Greenberg
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:40:18 EST
From: CHill113#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Re:GMC Re: Battery Locations
I'll add my two cents worth on auxillary battery position. I have a 77 Palm Beach. I did away with the battery in back and put two 6 volt golf cart batteries up front on the curb side. They are positioned one in front of the other with about an inch clearance at the closest point to the outside body. The engine battery is between them and the radiator shell. I used the same cable from the old battery position in the back to carry current from the golf cart batteries to the Onan. I have not had any problems. Since this is the vicinity the GM engineers chose for the engine battery, I assumed it would be better than trying to find another location. It is also closer to the electrical connections on the firewall.
As to additional weight and handling, I can't tell any difference. The batteries can be installed through the eyebrow opening.
Justin Hill
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:17:28 -0800
From: Robert Dinsmore <bobdnmr1#gte.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Re:GMC Re: Battery Locations
Phil:
I fill my golf cart batteries 1/2 way between the lowest part of the fill tube and the plates. These batteries (Trojan 105) have a lot of water capacity above the plates. I have taken a 50 degree knock down with my sailboat and have not spilled a drop of battery acid).
These batteries are "not" maintenance free... you need to check the water level at a regular interval.
If it still bothers you, you can purchase special marine type battery caps that are designed to recover water that is boiled away during heavy recharge amps. Very expensive though.... so I ruled them out.
Philip L. Stewart wrote:
>
> I've read the discussions on installing auxillary batteries in the space behind the front grill and in front of the A/C condenser, radiator and in my case an auxillary transmission cooler coil. What's anybody's guess about the risk batteries in this location would pose to these parts due to the possibility of battery acid spills or corroisve
> venting from normal or accidental over-charging? I recently had to replace the radiator core on my coach and sure would hate to have to do that expensive job again. If this is a safe location otherwise, it seems
> like a good place to mount additional house batteries.
> Phil
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:56:33 -0800
From: "Mike Finnicum" <mike#songtek.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: RE: Battery locations
Hi All,
Lots of activity while I was at our monthly GMC rally. So here is my 2 cents worth.
Re: Weight up front vs. batteries.
I have my original style battery in the back compartment. At the club we have about 150 members with 50-60 regularly showing up at the rallies. I have surveyed the group and about 20% have moved batteries forward (over 50% have switched to golf cart batteries). No one has yet moved them back. There are various reasons but storage (using old bat compartment for elec cords, hoses, oil, etc.) and weight up front appear the biggest.
Alex Sirum who owns a large GMC repair center in Ochachobee, FL say the weight is negligible compared to the total up front weight. He also says if you are wearing out bearings, check the hubs. If they are worn, bearings will wear out 2 to 5 times faster. You should NOT be able to turn the bearing inside the hub. The front axles are meant to carry 3500 lbs.. 75-100 lbs. of battery is only 2-3% of the total.
I am now planning to move mine up front at my next coach battery replacement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:44:49 -0500
From: "John Massey" <john.massey#tcs.wap.org>
Subject: GMC: Wiring for multiple batteries
Do I have a problem?
I've got three batteries in my 1977 Royale - Starting, House and Generator. The Maintenance manual diagrams, however, only show two. For example, the diagram entitled "1977 and 1978 GMC Motorhome Living Area 12-Voly DC Electrical System...." show how the "cranking" battery and "Aux" battery are connected. Part of my problem is that the House battery wire, that I would have expected to be routed back from the front, where the battery is located, to the converter in the rear, is not. Tracing the wire under the MH, the Red large gage wire is tied off in the vicinity of the generator and is terminated in a heavy ring terminal which is not connected to anything! Two inches away there is a Red wire from the generator battery and that is connected a stud terminal on what I believe to be a fuse (metal block about 2" by 3/4" with two studs). The other stud terminal is connected to a Black very large gage wire which goes to the converter. The "fuse" is just hanging in the air with the wires attached. So it looks like the way it is connected NOW, the generator battery is only charged by the converter and the house battery is only charged by the alternator. Also the Generator battery is the only source of 12 vdc for house needs.
If I were to connect the Red house battery wire to the same stud terminal that the Red generator wire is connected to, then, I think, I have the two batteries in parallel. Then both batteries would be charged by either the alternator when the engine is running or, when stationary, by the convertor when it gets shore power or AC from the generator. I am concerned that this would mean that, when the engine is running, the alternator would
be charging all three batteries - is this a problem?
This would also mean that when I select BATT BOOST, all three batteries are available for starting.
All three batteries are identical, looks as if they were bought at the same time about a year ago.
I just don't see a reason for someone disconnecting the House battery wire in the first place and am a bit apprehensive about reconnecting it. Hope this was clear enough.
John
FMCA 231235
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:00:38 -0500
From: Bill Wallace <wallace#mail.org>
Subject: Re: GMC: Wiring for multiple batteries
John, I can help on this. My '78 Royale had same hookup. The "fuse" you describe is a circuit breaker to protect in case of a short in the wire to the front coach battery. The breaker on mine was wrapped in tape. Breaker was inoperative. Wire from gen and battery goes to one end of breaker. Wire from converter and wire from front coach battery goes on other end. Size of breaker, about 40 amp should be stamped on it. I found one at Camping World. I also replaced gen. battery with 2 golf cart batteries in series. Keep front coach battery to assist with battery boost as circuit breaker at gen. will trip if starting with boost. It is automatic reset. This way you have three batteries for coach operation. Iused replacement battery trays in gen. compartment to anchor batteries. Engine gen. charges all batteries on road. Converter charges coach batteries when plugged in and genset charges all coach batteries when running. Hope this helps.
If you need more let me know.
Bill Wallace
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:24:14 -0700
From: "Heinz Wittenbecher" <heinz#bytedesigns.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: EFI project complete, looking for some 'tuning' info.
Paul,
When I first got my rig (10+) years ago with a 70 amp ( I think ) installed I had a few alternator failures in a relatively short time. In retrospect it might've been workmanship :-) of the alternators themselves. That was before I knew anything about GMC's or the community. (I had always wanted one, the opportunity arose, and I still have it :-)
On a trip to Buskirks early on (for sway bars, etc) it so happened that they had a used 150 and I bought it. We changed the output wire to #4 (I think), i.e. large.
Whether I need it or would do it again? who knows :-) I've replaced/rebuilt it a few times but overall it's not been giving any hassles other than being very picky about belt tension. Hopefully that's now solved as I have the serpentine installed.
Load: originally I figured I'd be running the fridge on 12V while underway, but it broke and got replaced a long time ago so now run on propane. I do 'cycle' my batteries lots. Computers (full size and laptop), cellphone(s), used to have a satellite system for comunications before cell phones came around, etc.
With 20/20 hindsight the only reason for change would be psychological, I think. I.e. a 150 amp would work less, last longer... equals less downtime (in one's mind :-)
With reference to the diode/battery splitter gadget (the proper name escapes me at the moment :-), after a couple of failures I changed it to a relay connected 'ignition on' so that the relay is closed and feeds the rear house battery when engine is running.
Heinz
'76 Transmode
--------------------------------------
>Heinz:
>
>You say you run a 150 alternator.
>
>What kind of a load do you have that requires that size alternator? Did you upgrade any of the original wiring to carry the increased load? I've heard various people question the wisdom of not doing so.
>
> Paul Bartz
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Heinz Wittenbecher [SMTP:heinz#bytedesigns.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 12:21 PM
>> To: gmcmotorhome#mailinglists.org
>> Subject: Re: GMC: EFI project complete, looking for some 'tuning' info.
>>
>> Try going to this website http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/
>>
>> I run a 150amp alternator and it's always been more difficult to keep belt tension just right. >>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:16:12 -0600
From: Robert M Fukumoto <fukf19#idt.net>
Subject: GMC: 12 volt power converter
I am a newbie working to get my 76 Palm Beach ready to take my first trip. I just got my monitor panel to somewhat work and find that my 120v ac to 12 volt dc converter is putting out 18+ volts. I verified this with a multimeter.
I can find little literature on this subject. The converter, from looking at the manual doesn't appear to be the original. Books seem to indicate that converters should only put out between 14 and 15 volts.
Are there usually ways to adjust the output voltage on the converters? Am I risking damage to my battery with such high output. Will this hurt my 12 volt appliances and radio? What should I look for in a replacement? Can I install it myself or should I have someone like Camping World install it? Any help would be appreciated.
Bob Fukumoto
76 Palm Beach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:36:31 -0700
From: Bill Rush <brush#cruzio.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: 12 volt power converter
I've done a bit of work on converters and you are right 18 volts is too high, however I'm no expert on the effect other than overcharging the battery and having to watch the water level. What brand converter is it?
Bill Rush
-----------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:18:44 -0500
From: "Mark Grady" <mgrady#npcc.net>
Subject: GMC: Refrigerator question
Greetings all --
One of this year's projects is the replacement of the original refrigerator in our '77 Kingsley. It has 'sticky' compressor valves that allow it to run without producing any head pressure and thereby cooling.
I've heard from a number of people who swear by LP units, but we seldom dry camp long enough to deplete our battery string (a total of 4 6 volt golf cart units, two front and two rear.)
New RV style units are $1,000 and up, but I've seen some very nice looking GE 6.5 and 9.1 cu ft household refrigerators that only consume an amp to 1.5 amps. We don't use the built in vacuum, and a little wood working would easily make one of these units fit nicely.
There are now some very efficient modified sine-wave 12 to 110 volt inverters on the market. I even took a portable power back and an inverter along and found that a 600 watt unit will easily handle the load (although I didn't try it in a locked armature condition). It would seem easy enough to put the inverter in the closet and power the refrigerator using 110 on that circuit through the existing wiring.
Anyone else out there have any thoughts or suggestions? Pitfalls I haven't considered?
This seems like such a simple solution. Have I missed something?
Thanks for your replies.
Mark Grady
mgrady#npcc.net
--------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:25:16 -0700
From: Jim Bounds <jimbounds#sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Power modifications
Tim Jones wrote:
>
> There are other modifications I would make to the primary power circuit,
> give me and we can discuss them. 1-877-275-4462
>
> Jim Bounds
>
> Jim if you have some other ideas for the power circuits I would like to hear them. I am in the process of installing a Todd converter/charger and would like to upgrade the electrical as I go. Does anyone know of a small 110V circuit box that I could use to replace the household unit that is in my 78 Kingsley. Or better yet a matched design for both the 12V dc fuses and the 110V ac circuit breakers. If I could find good design and good function that would be a great package. Thanks to everyone for all of the information. It makes me realize how much I have to learn.
> Tim Jones
> timjones#hevanet.com
Tim,
I'm sure everyone is board of sifting through all the notes I wrote tonight, give me a call and we can discuss specifics easier on the phone (1-877-275-4462). Basically, I would install a third battery with an A/B selector switch and a knife switch to the chassis battery along with some wiring changes like the dash radio to the living area battery, etc.
I've got a pretty neat AC/DC power panel that you could use if you're up for the wiring mods.
Jim Bounds www.gmccoop.com
-----------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:53:54 EDT
From: davegreenberg1#juno.com (David L. Greenberg)
Subject: GMC: Battery Boost switch
Be careful. Early models didn't have a rocker switch for the battery boost and sometimes the switch is left in the boost position or on. GM later changed this to a rocker switch. You only use this to put all batteries together to help start your engine or Onan. Not to be used (and unnecessary) while the engine is running.
David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Delray Beach, FL
davegreenberg1#juno.com
---------------------------
On Thu, 28 May 1998 00:36:37 -0400 (EDT) "Thomas G. Warner"
<warner#borg.com> writes:
>Battery boost puts your living area battery in parallel with the
>engine battery and has nothing to do with the generator.
>
Phil,
To the boost switch, it simply energizes the solenoid located above the battery up front which electrically ties the rear and the front 12 volt electrical systems together momentarily. This will bypass the isolator which has the job of splitting the 2 systems and allow the engine alternator to charge both while the engine is running. This is desirable in that the chassis battery can be saved for starting the engine even after that wild night where you left the coach lights on because the lamp shade on your head prevented you from seeing that you had left them on after the belly dancers had left!
There are differences in the wiring logic of this circuit between the early and late coaches. I have found modifications for both that their use. Give me a call toll free (1-877-275-4462) and we can go over the wiring together.
Jim Bounds www.gmccoop.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 06:02:19 -0400
From: Dick Kennedy <rakennedy#iquest.net>
Subject: RE: GMC: Broken Alternator Belt
Rob,
If your batteries are fully charged you shouldn't have any problem driving 5 miles without the alternator. I once made it about that far at night with all of the lights on but that was with a running start and no other reasonable choice.
My '75 palm Beach has the house batteries mounted behind the generator and the 40 amp DC supply for them is powered when the generator is up and running. This is the vintage where the shore power cord must be manually plugged in to the generator to make it work. The good news is that there is about a #2 battery cable running from these batteries up to the front to a solenoid mounted on the firewall on the passenger side.
I believe this solenoid is connected to a battery booster switch on the dash. When the switch is active the front and rear batteries will be connected together. I don't even know if mine actually works but the point is both batteries have heavy cables coming to that solenoid. Jumper them together at the point and all of your house capacity will be available to the engine system. Both batteries are also attached to the alternator splitter but I believe the heaviest wires are at the solenoid.
Get yourself a good voltmeter and it is easy to check all of this out. On an earlier mini (actually later since it was a '79) that I had I actually kept an alligator clip under the hood so I could couple the two batteries and play the dash radio while on shore power. This was easier then changing wiring.
Hope this helps
Dick Kennedy
--------------------------------
At 10:30 PM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, I got the GMC running. Then the belt to the alternator broke. I want to move the coach to my house ( about five miles ). Can I use the onan generator to supply 12volts to the main battery to run the engine? Maybe that's the way it works anyway??? If not I'll have to replace the belt where it sits. That can be done...But its in the old REO building and really dirty place to work. It would be a lot easier to work on it at my house.
>Thanks,
> Rob Teed
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:29:24 EDT
From: <LNelson208#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Installing a home type fridge
Here is where I have some experience. My wife and I own a 56' houseboat with a 16 cf GE (residential type) fridge. I don't like running the genset all night long when we are "coved out", the nautical equivalent of boondocking. First there is the noise, second the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning (seen it first hand!) I installed 8 golf cart batteries (880 reserve amps # 12v.) and a 2000 watt inverter. All this set-up does is gets me through the night in peace and quiet. (When the morning comes, the genset comes on, the Jimmy Buffett cd's get turned on, the inverter is now CHARGING at up to 100a, and the genset is running the fridge on AC.) All I ask is about 10 hours of capacity, and I get it. These batteries only supply this inverter which is connected to one AC circuit in the AC panel. House batteries and another dc charger handle the rest. You do need to bring that much battery power back up to snuff, and this charging process really pulls some AC amps, let me tell you, especially when the charging function is in the early stages. You need to get the air movement in the residential box, cause tight fits hinder the cooling process. As for me and my Palm Beach, we are going to stick with propane for the refrigerating process, but will use a scaled down golf cart battery / inverter setup for running the tv. Have not gotten that far into the process.
Larry Nelson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 05:22:26 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Installing a home type fridge
Larry,
Not sure which you are asking about, but the boat has two Prevailer 8d's and the GMC has two golf cart house batteries. If this sounds insufficient, the ULine is only 6 cu ft and has a tiny 1/6 hp 500 watt compressor. We cram as much extra insulation around the box as we can fit in. Also add a layer of aluminum foil to reduce radiant heating. On the boat, we can turn it off at bedtime and the ice is still frozen next morning. The Norcold runs on 12v overnight but adding insulation around it has reduced its electrical consumption.
Don
--------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:22:32 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Alternator - need help
Bob,
FWIW, some considerations.
1. Since most everything is built into your new alternator, it may have had a short life span.
2. Make sure #2 white wire has around 12 volts present with key on and when engine is running.
3. Your diode isolator might be bad.
If you understand how the diode isolator works, check it out with your ohm meter.
An alternate diode isolator check is to put a jumper wire between it's three terminals. If both engine and house batteries charge properly with engine running and jumper in place, the isolator is the problem.
4. Look for corrosion at the terminals and connectors.
5. Check wire continuity from alternator output to diode isolator input.
6. Check two wires for continuity from isolator output to aux battery relay terminals.
Be careful, if the alternator does not have a load, when engine is running its output voltage can be high. High enough to kill you and high enough to short out the alternator internal diodes.
Don
------------------------
>I was working on my 76 Palm Beach today trying to get it ready for its maiden voyage in two weeks. The alternator stopped working. I removed the alternator and had it tested at the local Checker auto and found that
>it was fine. (I put in a new one though, the bearings seemed to be a little questionable). I tested the #2 lead from the alternator to the battery junction block and it was fine. I haven't been able to find where the #1 lead goes to. However, like the manual said, I tested all three leads from the alternator with the ignition key in the on position. The #3 lead to the battery showed no voltage. The #1 lead to the dash light showed 2.4 volts. The #2 lead to the battery junction showed 12.6 volts.
>
>As I read the manual, there is a shutoff of power production in the alternator if the #1 and #2 leads don't have the proper voltage coming back into the alternator.
>
>I can use all the help and ideas that anyone can give me on what's causing the alternator not to put out any voltage. >
>Bob Fukumoto
-----------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:59:57 EDT
From: <LNelson208#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Installing a home type fridge
I've got to jump in again on the "home fridge" debate. If one is on the road a lot, an engine driven compressor and holding plates in a well insulated box is right out of the ancient mariners handbook. Seriously, our rv boxes are very poor, and they open the wrong way ----in front. We lose lots of coolness all over our tootsies, every time we open the door. Then the machinery has to go back to work. Well made marine boxes are top loading and have a min. of 4" of insulation, hopefully 6". Many mariners have tried kerosene fridges, but they must be gimballed to keep them level as possible. For my money, the 3 ways are not a bad solution. The propane is safe if installed properly, it's available, and it's noiseless. I will stick with my huge bank of golf cart batteries in my houseboat (+ 2000 watt inverter + 17 cf fridge), but in the Palm Beach its propane and line voltage for me.
Larry Nelson Palm Beach 75
--------------------------------
My converter was throwing off 18 volts and there was no adjustment to change the voltage. The company that made the unit was out of business so I ended up buying a Magnatex converter which, by the way, I have now heard good and bad things about.
I replaced the isolator early on because I was having trouble with the original batteries charging. As it turns out, the batteries were bad and the isolator was ok but I kept the isolator.
I was told by several GMC Western Staters that the heater hose shutoff valves never quite shut off the flow and in hot weather you can feel the heat coming out of the vent system. Since it was cheap I just put in a ball valve (around $6) with two 5/8" hose barbs in the place of the original shutoff valve which was between the two front access doors on my coach. I also have an added on heater under the front dining room seat that was hot to the touch after driving only a short distance so I put a shutoff on that too. Of interest in my coach is there is a device under the coach, to the front of the door that looks like an old style home steam radiator made of copper pipe. It is hooked up to the heater line that flows to the bath water heater. I can only assume that it is there to dissipate heat and it seems like a decent idea to me.=20
My water temp gauge runs between 190 and 200 when I have had it out on hot days. Does this seem normal to all? By the way, I just put Castrol Syntec synthetic oil in both my engine and Onan and Prolong Oil treatment in the engine and Prolong transmission treatment in the AT. I was pretty convinced (or gullible) by the infomercials on TV. We'll see how it works.
Bob Fukumoto
76 Palm Beach newbie =20
----------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 08:40:18 -0400
From: Dick Kennedy <rakennedy#iquest.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Converter recommendations?
Ralph,
Those old power supplies use what is called ferroresonant technology. I've had to repair mine twice in the past year. Most recently when the starter bracket broke off the generator while the generator was running it burned the terminals off the coach battery and also blew the convertor. I don't know if it was the short itself or the transient that caused the problem. Inside the convertor there's a huge transformer, a rectifier, and some big AC capacitors. These capacitors resonate with the transformer winding and are the basis for the voltage regulation. Mine is a Triad unit and it had a pair of 4 of 650vac caps connected in parallel inside. Last fall one of these caps was shorted and last week I replaced the other one. I had difficulty locating the 4u caps and when I finally did they were very expensive so I replaced each of them with a pair of 7.5 u # 370 vac caps in series. It now works just fine and is now back inside humming away. So yours is probably repairable if you can find someone to do it at a reasonable price.
The problem with these old beasts besides the amount of iron in them is that they draw a lot of standby power. If my memory is correct mine drew about 70 or 80 watts standby with no load. This is enough to make the transformer run hot and is more power than I want to leave plugged in full time when the unit is parked at home. I then retrieved a similar unit from an RV that I had sold to a friend. It's stand by power was pretty much the same. My GMC is a '75 and the other RV was a '79 and the two supplies were very similar but not exactly identical.
As the next step in this saga I obtained a more modern supply from an rv surplus place. The modern units are wired differently. On the GMC the coach battery is on line all the time and the supply keeps it charged. On the newer stuff when on AC the battery is switched off line and is trickle charged while raw rectified AC is fed to the coach itself. The problem with this system is that many solid state items won't work from unfiltered DC. I assume that newer RV's must route both raw power for lights and battery for the critical things. This is probably technically a better system since there would be less cycling of the batteries. I didn't want to get into making changes so I returned that supply to the dealer.
In this same time frame I was getting back into ham radio after being out for 30 years. I purchased an Astron RS-35 (http://www.astroncorp.com) supply for use with the ham gear. This supply is regulated and filtered at 13.8v. It would be a candidate for a replacement unit but since it's not designed for use as a battery charger I would assume that it would drain the battery when unplugged. Astron also sells a line of switching supplies that are much smaller and presumably more efficient. Last fall I sent an email to Astron asking some specifics for our application but they never responded.
This is as far as I took my search. I solved the standby problem by leaving it unplugged when I'm at home. These newer designs are smaller and more efficient than the old ferroresonant guys but I didn't really find anything that fit exactly what I needed so I stayed with the original. It would also be nice to have a quick charge mode built in.
These Astron supplies are available used for under a $100 so if my supply failed today I would probably put the Astron in the RV and use a high blower relay for isolation if necessary. From the postings there are other alternatives also but I don't know the relative costs.
Hope these ramblings help someone.
Dick
-------------------------------
At 02:55 PM 8/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Noticed that my converter -- looks to be original -- doesn't always want to work even though it hums up a storm. Any recommendations about which models I should check out? What are some of the differences that more experienced folks have found and what sources do you recommend?
>
>Thanks for the advice.
>
>Ralph Edelbach, '74 Glacier (still being gone through!)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:07:52 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Converter recommendations?
Another problem with these old ferroresonant chargers is they keep charging your batteries until they are cooked as they don't cut back enough.
I would suggest checking marine stores before spending hard earned dollars to buy outdated ferroresonant converters.
The boating industry threw them overboard awhile back and went to greatly improved chargers which have a three modes of charging. They quickly charge your battery until about 90% charged, then switch to a conventional charger until 100 percent charged, then enter a float mode to supply no more than is needed to keep them charged. This greatly extends battery life.
Some of the larger 120v inverters include this type of microprocessor controlled charger when on shore power. One of them has a nice feature that monitors total shore power current and automatically reduces the battery charging current to keep from overloading shore power circuits while you use other appliances.
Don
----------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:29:17 EDT
From: <RickStapls#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Converter recommendations?
Ralph,
Had the same problem with my '75. My converter used 3 big capacitors (~ 4 ufd) in parallel, rated for 660V. The first year I owned it ('96), one of them shorted out (diagnosis was easy once I got it apart, the end cap of the bad capacitor was bulged out!) With some long-distance advice from a friend who services battery chargers, I merely cut the bad cap out of the circuit, which got things going again for a while.
(Incidentally, my friend told me that these ferroresonant power supplies are considered quite durable and safe. Says you can short the output leads together without damage if you're brave. Since I'm poor, this reinforced my inclination to stick with the original converter. Finding that the so-called high-tech converters switch the batteries out of circuit when charging, feeding barely filtered DC to the coach, cinched the decision.)
The quick-and -dirty fix got me through summer '96, but the next year another capacitor blew. Went shopping at the local electronics surplus/used shop. Couldn't find exact replacements, but found 3 4 ufd caps rated about 400V that would fit the mounting brackets. About $3 each brand new, IIRC!
Took 'em home, bolted and soldered 'em in, and all is well. Still working fine 1 year and ~6,000 miles later.
Good luck.
Rick Staples
-------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:27:07 -0400
From: "Tom Winslow" <tom_winslow#email.msn.com>
Subject: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
I am trying to determine what is causing the generator battery to drain. From a full charge the battery list charge in 24 hours with everything off except the gas refrigerator and freezer. Can anyone offer a suggestion or a test procedure?
Regards,
Tom Winslow
----------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:03:57 -0400
From: "Samuel Pickens" <picksam#worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down
Tom, only one thought. Someone prior may have spurred in from the main batteries without going through the switching. All I got. Regards, Sam Pickens picksam#worldnet.att.net.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:50:36 EDT
From: <DVM22727#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
Tom:
I drained my Engine (Generator) battery at the Indy 500 when the 12 volt TV set was left connected to the Cigarette lighter outlet over that weekend. I found out later that the TV should never be left connected to this "direct current" when it is not in use. Also, It took a Service Truck to get the Coach started.
I now have a "direct current" 12 Volt outlet installed for my TV - it is wired directly to the "House Battery". Regardless to where you get the electric power, you should not leave the TV plugged in when the coach is in "Dry Dock.
Hope this helps,
Don Martin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 23:16:32 -0400
From: Dick Kennedy <rakennedy#iquest.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
Tom,
On the door of the fridge in my '75 Palm Beach there is a switch marked with something about humidity. It's apparently some sort of frost free feature. If it's left on it will drain batteries in a day or so and there is no indication other than the switch position. I believe it even draws power when the fridge is shut off. It zapped my batteries once last year and again this year but I still haven't gotten around to disabling it. Yours could have this gremlin also.
All of the current from the house battery should be passing thru the fuse block. If you're drawing enough current to drain the batteries in a short time you can probably detect a small spark when you make & break the circuit. That's how I found the fridge current this last time. One of those light bulb continuity testers is the next logical step for trouble shooting. I usually never know where mine is but I do always have a DVM handy.
You can either use a DVM to measure current directly or deduce current by measuring voltage drops. When DVM's are in current mode they are actually measuring voltage across a calibrated meter shunt. It's possible to use a length of wire or measure across an existing wire to create your own meter shunt. I don't remember the precise details but the '79 GMC chassis that I had had about a number 10 wire from the alternator to the battery. I used a sharp point to pierce the insulation and spread the wire strands in two spots about a foot apart (I used some wire tables and some experimenting to find just the right distance). Then when I inserted the DVM probes in the holes I had an ammeter that was calibrated 200 amps full scale, had 100 ma steps, and didn't blow meter fuses.
You probably don't need to get as fancy as making calibrated shunts but as a practical matter it's usually possible to find points on the wiring harness where voltage drops can be measured to deduce where the current is going without actually opening any circuits to measure it. Your situation seens to have enough drain that there should be enough drop across the fuse block to deduce which circuit is the problem. The offending circuit will have a few millivolts drop across that fuse.
Hope this helps
Dick
-------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 02:21:38 -0700
From: Jim Bounds <jimbounds#sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: GMC Hams
Larry,
You are right, a good converter will save you many $ in dead batteries, I also have a few primary wiring mods I do to units that logically help conserve current and that's what 12 volt circuits need to do! I also employ a 30 amp solid state converter that I have had very good luck with. They run about 175.00. For a little more, they also have a 40 amp. model that works well too!
If you would like to talk further about the 12 volt mods I do, give me a call toll free on Friday at 1-877-275-4462.
Jim Bounds www.gmccoop.com
LNelson208#aol.com wrote:
>
> I would suggest that you cannot spend too much money on a charger for your valuable batteries. Smart chargers, with three stages of charge, are the only way to go, or, trust me, you'll be replacing your batteries every year. A good 30 amp charger will cost over $300 discounted, but will be the way I go after all the mechanical systems are to my liking. BTW, the SGC is an almost "industrial" ham rig, also used by the military. I have all the back issues of GMCMM and particularly look at the ham radio installations on the Coach of the month.
>
> I have been collecting battery/inverter data for years + I operate a tour boat that is a battery test bed. I'll be adding a 50w solar collecter to the roof of my coach along with a systems monitor. Already have a Heart Inverter (700w) from my last coach. Larry Nelson, Palm Beach 75
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:48:42 -0600
From: Robert Shimanek <robshim#up.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down
At 02:03 PM 8/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
Tom: Another thought: How old is your battery? Maybe your battery is only accepting a top charge. Will all your electrical components off you can install an ampmeter which is incorporated in most volt/omhmeters. Install it in series with your battery positive lead and if you note an amp draw start removing fuses until it reads zero. That will be the culprit that is causing your drainage.
Bob
---------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:54:59 -0500
From: "Mark Grady" <mgrady#npcc.net>
Subject: GMC: Battery Draining Down / Finding current draw (derived thread)
> -----Original Message-----
> From:On Behalf Of Dick Kennedy
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 1998 10:17 PM
{snip}
>When DVM's are in current mode they are actually measuring voltage across a calibrated meter shunt. It's possible to use a length of wire or measure across an existing wire to create your own meter shunt.
Mark Grady writes:
At work, I chase DC current loops and the mischief they create for a living.
I have an English made Simpson clamp around DC 'amprobe' style meter. It cost the company about $3,000 and it's worth every penny.
At home, I have a Japanese made Extech Instruments AC/DC clamp meter that I got from:
Bob Cain - The Meter Man
PO Box 1280
Bethany, OK 73008
v: 405-722-0339
It is just as accurate as the Simpson. It does AC, DC, temperature, voltage and resistance. It cost less than $200, and it too is worth every penny.
If you want to find out where you're 'leaking' 12 volt power (and how much) this is the ultimate tool for the job.
A 12 volt test light in series with the suspected circuit (as well described in Dick Kennedy's message) works great, but if you have problems you can't resolve, get your hands on a clamp style DC meter and you'll make quick work of solving any DC related problem.
Mark
----------------
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:29:59 EDT
From: <RickStapls#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
Tom,
Standard test procedure for checking for current draw ("parasitic loads" to get fancy) is to use a common test light. (Multimeters tend to be too sensitive on the volts scale, not sensitive enough on the amps scale, and will usually self-destruct if you make the mistake of using the ohms (resistance) scale on a live circuit.)
Shut everything off (including your refrigerator), disconnect either battery cable, and insert the test light between the cable and the battery (ie: in series with the battery). It should not light (a dim glow is acceptable if you have "memory" devices connected). If the test light lights, you have something drawing current from the battery. Isolate it by removing one fuse at a time until the test light goes out. The last fuse supplies the offending circuit.
If everything checks out, use an ammeter (amps scale on your multimeter if it has one that goes up to 3 -4 amps or more) to check the current drawn by your refrigerator. Compare with your refrigerator specs to see if it is excessive.
Finally, your battery(s) may be dying. Have it charged and load tested to find out.
Good luck.
Rick Staples
------------------------------------
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 7:32 PM
To: gmcmotorhome#mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola
TZE167V101893
I had a similar problem and found the battery isolator was the problem.
Russ Bethel
rbethel#stic.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:14:34 EDT
From: <Gcbr#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
Here are some things to check for.
1. Make sure the amp on your TV antenna is turned off.
2. Make sure any 12v televisions and or VCRs are unplugged. They still draw voltage when off.
These problems assume that the gen battery is also the house bat.
Next --mine is behind the closet module--check the fiber block where the positive cable is bolted to sidewall. Mine was oil soaked and causing a small drain.
If the house battery and gen bat are the same start pulling fuses until the drain goes away. If they are seperate batterys try cleaning everything between the gen and battery. Pay special attention to the selenoid. A track down the side can cause a problem. Take it out of the circuit and see if the drain is still there. Good Luck.
Take Care
Arch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:51:26 -0700
From: Bill Rush <brush#cruzio.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
RickStapls#aol.com wrote:
I had a bad stator on my generator a while ago. You can isolate the stator and check to see if you still have draw on your battery.
Disconnect the generator battery. There are two wires from the stator (located under the flywheel) one goes to the voltage regulator terminal marked "AC" and the other goes to the printed circuit board terminal 2. Disconnect both of theses leads and reconnect the battery. If you still a draw on the battery keep looking. If there is no draw look for about $200 to replace the stator. Don't try to start the generator with these leads disconnected. Bad things happen.
Good luck
Bill Rush
26 Canyonlands
------------------------------ From: <RickStapls#aol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Generator Battery Draining Down - 1977 GMC Coca-Cola TZE167V101893
TW wrote:
> What is the battery isolator?
Tom,
It's the finned aluminum thingie mounted high up on the aluminum electrical plate way up front, passenger's side. Basically 2 hefty diodes on a heat sink, it takes the output from the alternator, and allows rhe current to flow into both the chassis and house (or generator) batteries, without allowing current to flow back fom one battery to the other. Idea is if you run down your house battery(s) watching TV etc, you still have power in the chassis battery to start the engine in the morning.
If yours is bad (doesn't perform as described above), bigger more rugged ones are available from J.C.Whitney. Good luck.
Rick Staples
-----------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:30:45 -0700
From: "Heinz Wittenbecher" <heinz#bytedesigns.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: Alternator question and comment re 4bagger and disc brakes... add
ramblings.
> I took a look at the GM book since you probably don't have yours with you. Oddly enough it says little about voltage but mentions above 15.5 as too high with a fully charged battery. They say get out the hydrometer and
> don't forget to water the batteries.
>
> They mention checking the #2 lead with an ohm meter to make certain it is not grounded. The insulators are sometimes left off or brush leads become shorted to ground, etc. This lead is connected to the battery through the fusible link and would blow it if there was a ground fault.
>
> Another item is the higher than normal heat. As temps increase the voltage needed to fully charge the battery decreases. The regulator has a thermistor to compensate for temp and it may be defective.
>
> Prevailer gel cell optimum varies from 14.5 volts at 32 F to 13.2 volts at 122 F. Flooded cells are a few tenths volt different but I forget whether it is less or greater.
Thanks for the confirmation re lower voltage when hot. I thought that was the direction but it could also have been a case of mushy brain/heatstroke.
Glad it's not gone altogether (the brain).
>
> I don't think you can put the field plug in backward but if so ????????
I don't think you can either but it's worth a double check. thanks.
> Then there is the infamous diode isolator which may be a contributor. It will have some voltage drop across it so the alternator voltage will be higher by the amount of that voltage drop, than a system without one.
The diode isolator went out many years ago on the recommendation of an RV expert and as that was before I knew better, a solenoid has been in There many moons. In retrospect, I actually think that may have been the cause of what I Call many alternator failures over the years (instead of my abuse of electrical power). As I had 2 Alternators fail in as many trips I was in a better to position to retrace circumstances (I.e. I could still remember). On both trips I used Roof Air, i.e. GenSet running and providing some 12vdc as
Well as Alternator running providing some 12v. When solenoid is engaged it's a direct connect between batteries and charging source(s). I have to ponder and ask another question to the electrical experts. but in the meantime I'm keeping them isolated when both are running.
> Many cruising boaters have replaced diode isolators with a solenoid actuated by the engine oil pressure switch. Said to be much more reliable.
I have the solenoid on ignition so that with key off the batteries are isolated and I can drain the house battery without affecting the front and as a solenoid usually fails open it further protects the front batteries
from un-authorized drain.
>
> In any event the voltage sounds too high to me.
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:28:41 -0600
From: "Richard Guthart" <rguthart#frii.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: convertor, fan clutch
I noticed the Caspro catalogue lists a 60 Amp (actually 2x30 amps) convertor/charger. Does anyone know how the Caspro and Todd units compare? What are the differences between them and, especially, which is better at rapidly but gently charging the coach batteries and tapering the charge so as to not fry them?
Dick Guthart
'77 Birchaven
>I've been told the best replacement for my dead convertor is the 75 amp unit from Todd engineering. Where can I get one at a good price? Also, I've been told I have the wrong fan clutch, and need the heavy duty clutch. Which one of those in the Parts Interchange Index is that? It lists a NAPA 271303 (I have the 455) and a "no roar" Hayden 15-4298. The one I have now doesn't roar, is it the one that roars that's the heavy duty clutch? By "roar" I assume they mean the roaring like that which accompanies a fan with a frozen clutch.
>
>Everyone has been great about giving me help. I appreciate any info on this you can offer.
>
>Darryl Kiehl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:54:07 -0700
From: "Heinz Wittenbecher" <heinz#bytedesigns.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: convertor, fan clutch
I've been using the Caspro chargers for many years. I have them mounted inside behind the gen/bat compartment (but inside under my bed). Not a favorable place for cooling, but they seems to survive.
It has a gentle charge and rapid charge setting, controlled by adding a toggle switch. I use it mostly in gentle and have only used max when charging with genset and wanted shortest charge time. (Max only recommended for a 24hr stretch at a time).
I'm always plugged in at home, i.e charger is on line at all times.
It makes very little noise (if any), i.e. have to really listen for it with your ear pressed to the mattress (and it's not just the mattress absorbing).
I ran a 110 circuit to the charger(s) and connected straight to the battery with a 50amp/12V (I think) circiut breaker.
No fans to distribute dust.
My 2cents
Heinz
----------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:54:59 -0500
From: "Stephen J. Galovic III" <galovic#pla-net.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Charger
Not to sound too simple, however, one of the first things we did to our coach was to relocate the radio and the interior cab lights to the house wiring (battery) to avoid the problem you are currently experiencing. In the early year models the battery boost switch on the dash could be left in the boost position, later years had a spring return on this switch to the normal position. If put in the boost position when connected to shore power all batteries will be receiving charge, when dry camping all batteries are being discharged (beware). In the normal position the motor battery is isolated from the converter charging and house draining. We installed a fuse block behind the glove box, sourced from the hose wiring, and fed through fuses to the radio, cockpit reading lights, and anything else we might put in later such as ventilation fans etc.
Stephen
-----------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:07:13 -0700
From: "Don W" <gmcnut#mailexcite.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Charger
I too did the same modification on my '77 Palm Beach. I also hooked the cigarette lighter into the house battery so my cell phone would not drain the engine battery. This stopped my problem of a dead engine battery after a weekend outing.
Don
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:43:56 EDT
From: ELUBO#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Charger
I had same problem, I ran a #10 wire directly from my radio to the terminal on the coach battery. Now I play the radio all the time and never worry that I won't be able to start the coach.
Ed.
-------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:30:30, -0500
From: JDDP32B#prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Charger
Yup me too.
I put the TV, CB, Radio, CD player -- all on a switch so I can select coach (ACC) or Coach battery. Mounted the switch in the driver's side pouch. See article
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com/tech/switches/index.html
gene
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:14:05, -0500
From: JDDP32B#prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Charger
oops forgot to say
A lot of folks keep a clip-lead near their isolator and jumper across the two bat terminals so that the shore power charger will charge engine bat while stopped. Problem is to remember to take it off. Not very satisfying , not a good idea to charge bats in parallel, but good idea if your bat is dead and need to charge from the generator or shore power.
gene
-------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:25:15 -0700
From: "mr.c" <mr.c#wizrealm.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery Charger
Isn't it easier to jump the solenoid rather than using the jumper to jump the isolator. I just jump the solenoid, and charge both batteries.
Al Chernoff
gmcmotorhome#mailinglists.org wrote:
> Philip.........When you're parked, a heavy jumper wire between both heavy lugs on the battery solenoid will solve that problem. Be sure and remove it when you get ready to drive away. I keep mine clipped on the wire next to the solenoid so it's readily available. I also keep a tag on the steering wheel to remind me to remove it before leaving. Senility, you know.........Jim Davis
----------
>
Phillip..........I found my jumper wire method once caused an isolator failure....My solution: Mounted a one and a half amp battery charger below the isolator, on the firewall. Cost about $30 at Walmart...Ran the 110 Volt wire back to the plugin under table behimd the passenger seat...The little charger is about four inches by 3 inches by one inch...Works well for me, I run both the radio and the front TV off the vehicle battery. I need all the juice I can conserve for the house battery to run the old fridge and furnace.....This little charger, if anyone interested, is called a Mity Mite I think.
77 Eleg II Gil in Iowa
----------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:46:09 -0400
From: Patrick Flowers <patri63#ibm.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Jumpering solenoid
Ritch Hwang wrote:
>
> I'm confused by all these references to jumpering either the isolator or boost solenoid to charge the starting battery using the converter or genset. Wouldn't setting the solenoid to boost do the same thing? That is, tie the house/generator batteries to the starting battery?
Ritch,
The "boost" switch is spring loaded in later models and will only stay there as long as you hold it.
Patrick
---------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:56:55 EDT
From: RickStapls#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Jumpering solenoid
Ritch,
On my '75 (and I believe all newer units) the boost switch is a momentary type, so you'd have to hold it down continuously to charge the batteries.
Even on older coaches I don't recommend leaving it in "boost". The boost solenoid(s) (there are 2 on my coach, the rear one bypassing the circuit breaker when "boosting") draw at least an amp or two each through their windings when energized, so you'd be wasting current. Also, they are essentially starter solenoids, and so are not really designed for continuous use. Just my .02.
Rick Staples
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:47:59 EDT
From: RBorg1#aol.com
Subject: GMC: Converter Problem?
When we heard the heater come on early in the morning, then listened to it getting slower and slower and awakening to no lights, we realized we were running off the house battery and no 110 being converted to the battery for charging. We thought it unusual that the meter for the house battery was showing low. Let me backup by saying we may have fritzed the water heater and hat switch is in the same outlet the converter is plugged into. Upon parking and getting things ready for a short weekend we realized we had not turned off the hot water heater switch from before. We do not drain the tank but open both valves in back to empty fresh water tank and pump, therefore we don't know how much water if any is left in the hot water tank. We plugged
the GMC in to 110 the evening before to get the fridge cold. The tank should have been hot unless we burned up the element, should the tank empty past half then that is most certainly what happened. The question is why did that affect the converter, if it did? Or are these two separate events?
RBorg1
-----------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:18:40 -0700
From: "Tipton, Eric" <ETipton#WTServices.com>
Subject: GMC: House batteries
It is time once again to replace my house batteries. Last time I replaced to original equipment D4 size with a bank of 3 size 24's. I am contemplating two large 6 volt Trojans run in series. Is anyone running a similar configuration. Any and all input is appreciated.
Eric Tipton
etipton#wtservices.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:52:40 EDT
From: Gcbr#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
I am about to do the same. I too want to go to 2 big 6 volts for house bats. I also would like to hear about 2 big 6 volts for starting bats. With 4 big 6 volt bats on board I think I would have some real STAYING power.
Take Care
Arch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:09:31 -0400
From: Jack Ford <jpf#ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
Eric
I have two six volt golf batteries I run in series, And it serves my coach very well.
Jack Ford
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:33:18 EDT
From: Gcbr#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
Jack
How many amp hours? Do you boondock much? What kind of charger? Sorry for so many questions.
Take Care
Arch
---------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:18:32, -0500
From: JDDP32B#prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
The recommendation is for two 6 volt golf cart batts for the coach, however it is recommended to use a large 12 volt for the starting batt. Now I will have to go find my notes to see why the 12 volt. It was something like the 12 volt has better starting characteristics and the golf cart batts have better long term drain characteristics. I will get back.
gene
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:12:32 -0600
From: Gerald Schmitt <ggs#lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
For house batteries use two six volt golf cart batteries in series. If you use two twelve volts in parallel, they will try to charge each other and result in fewer available coulombs than if you go the six volt route.
Golf car batteries are an excellent choice as they are designed to be drawn down rather far then recharged. Starting batteries are designed for lower internal resistance so they can provide high power density for short
periods of time.
On my coach I put an auxiliary battery holder on the driver's side and have the starting battery there and have plenty of room for a pair of golf cart batteries on the other side.
Hope this helps, Jerry
-------------------------------------------
Arch,
I run 2 golf car batteries (Trojan 104s) in the rear battery compartment of our Palm Beach. The larger capacity batteries are too tall to fit into the compartment without some modifications. I've gone to the
TrueCharge 40+ battery charger available from West Marine under their brand, or from Statpower (the manufacturer) in British Columbia.
Using this setup I can go 2 days during the summer before I need to recharge. During the 2 days, our load is primarily determined by the fridge. We still have the original fridge, so I don't have the option of propane. We used 2 lights (originals) for 2-3 hours per day, ran the radio a bit (1-2 hours per day) and still had enough juice left in the batteries to start the genset. Once I had to start the coach first in order to start the genset - after we'de run 3 days without any recharge.
Things to do that will extend boondocking time:
1. get a propane fridge! Probably the biggest improvement.
2. when boondocking use the "middle 50%" of the battey bank capacity. This means discharging until about 30% capacity is left and then recharging to 80% using the genset. You can rechage the 50% in about
2 hours depending on the charger. Shore powered recharge to 100%.
3. consider halogen lights or florescents (best) for better efficiency
4. look at your DC systems that include dimmers or speed controls. If they use load resistors for controling speed consider replacing with an electronic PWM controller, it's more energy efficient but more
expensive.
5. switch to a charger like the TrueCharge that can recharge to an 80% level in a few hours ( I try to use only about the middle 50% of the battery bank capacity since it recharges quickest)
You can also get a good feel for your own power consumption by installing an ammeter on the house battery and watching your load. Alternatively, run a few specific tests like I did to determine how long your battery banks last under what you think will be your typical usage. Lastly, make certain that your house and coach
batteries are isolated - that way when you make a mistake, you can still get everything started. Or, if you're really paranoid like me, carry a portapak booster battery just to make sure.
Henry Davis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:22:24, -0500
From: JDDP32B#prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
See I knew someone knew the answer. There was a thread several months ago that recomended the best golf cart batt. I remeber one suggestion was to go to the local company that repaired golf carts and ask them
what is the best battery.
Date: Wednesday, 14-Oct-98 11:18 AM
From: Gerald Schmidt
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
For house batteries use two six volt golf cart batteries in series. If you use two twelve volts in parallel they will try to charge each other and result in fewer available coulombs than if you go the six volt route.
Golf car batteries are an excellent choice as they are designed to be drawn down rather far then recharged. Starting batteries are designed for lower internal resistance so they can provide high power density for short periods of time.
On my coach I put an auxiliary battery holder on the driver's side and have the starting battery there and have plenty of room for a pair of golf cart batteries on the other side.
Hope this helps, Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:38:14 -0700
From: "Tipton, Eric" <ETipton#WTServices.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: House batteries
Jack - what is the size of the batteries, cost & brand?
Eric Tipton
etipton#wtservices.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:04:33 EDT
From: Gcbr#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
Jerry
Could you tell me about the auxiliary battery holder on the drivers side? Where did you get it and where did you put it? I have this problem of my 76 Glenbrook being a real half breed. It has the large air tank mounted on the drivers side. Yet it has a second design hot water heater. Yes, mine has the old Power Level system. I have second design windows-----with fixed windows in door and galley. I never know where things should be.
If you have a pic of your set up it would be great otherwise-----talk to me.
Take Care
Arch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:05:35 -0600
From: Gerald Schmitt <ggs#lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
Hi Arch,
My air tank is on the passenger side so there was plenty of space behind the steering column. The holder was one I had from JC Whitney is was sized to fit the largest conventional battery. I made the brackets.
Jerry
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:18:55, -0500
From: JDDP32B#prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
Expanded recipient data:
To: Gcbr \ America On-Line: (gcbr)
Ragusa has cast Aluminum battery pans both single and dual for the GMC.
Addr is on the site.
gene --
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:02:05 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
I removed the bat back of the genset because too much weight, too far aft of the rear axle is detrimental to good handling in most vehicles. More weight back there and the tail starts to do more of the steering. I appreciate superior road manners so I'm trying to lighten my GMC's tail. OK, while on the subject, adding up the heavy items behind the rear axle. Propane tank, water tank, spare tire, aft air conditioner, 8d battery, Onan and trailer hitch were on mine. Did I miss anything? All are heavy items and enough weight to probably be detrimental to good handling. Too much weight and the tail starts to do more of the steering...... sounds familiar does'nt it ? Onan cranks fine with full batteries up front but hav'nt tried it yet with low batteries. Don't really care as I plan to be rid of it too, if the big 12v alternator and inverter system prove to be adequate.
Cheers
Don Miller
>Thanks for the info. This seems to be a different approach than I have heard of.
>Do you still have a bat back next to the gen set?
>
>Take Care
>Arch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:10:35 -0700
From: "Tipton, Eric" <ETipton#WTServices.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: House batteries
How large an alternator & inverter are you running?
Eric Tipton
etipton#wtservices.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald W. Miller [mailto:millerdw#vaix2.net]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 5:02 PM
To: gmcmotorhome#mailinglists.org
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
I removed the bat back of the genset because too much weight, too far aft o the rear axle is detrimental to good handling in most vehicles.
More weight back there and the tail starts to do more of the steering. I appreciate superior road manners so I'm trying to lighten my GMC's tail.
OK, while on the subject, adding up the heavy items behind the rear axle.
Propane tank, water tank, spare tire, aft air conditioner, 8d battery, Onan and trailer hitch were on mine. Did I miss anything? All are heavy items and enough weight to probably be detrimental to good handling.
Too much weight and the tail starts to do more of the steering...... sounds familiar does'nt it ?
Onan cranks fine with full batteries up front but hav'nt tried it yet with low batteries. Don't really care as I plan to be rid of it too, if the big 12v alternator and inverter system prove to be adequate.
Cheers
Don Miller
-----------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:24:06 -0500
From: Al Ross <alanross#iadfw.net>
Subject: GMC: Battery blowup
Just a note of my recent experience so may prevent some one from making same mistake. My house battery had run down while coach in the shop. Don't know why but immaterial. Not enough juice to start the generator.
I used the Battery Boost switch to connect power from the coach battery with the engine running to recharge house battery. I waited a few minutes and hit the gen start switch. BANG! What a loud noise. Turns out the battery was giving off hydrogen (I know I should have remembered) and starting the generator added the appropriate spark to the hydrogen-oxygen. The result was a topless battery and acid everywhere. Fortunately it was contained within the battery area next to the generator. I installed a new battery after the clean-up.
Hope this story helps prevent someone else from doing the same.
Alan
78 Royale
-----------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:14:21 EDT
From: Gcbr#aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Battery blowup
In a message dated 10/17/98 2:13:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
RickStapls#aol.com writes:
<< .
One other possibility is that your battery was internally shorted or had a bad cell connector. This would account for its going dead, and might provide an internal ignition source. That is to say: If it blew up, and the cell caps were tight, it was probably junk anyways. :-)
Rick
I agree with you-------but then last week something happened that I had never seen before. My son called from Walmart and said his battery had just blown up. I looked under the hood and sure enough the entire
top of the battery was blown off. There was no sign of fire no melted plastic no scorched paint-----nothing. The battery was very low on water with some crud on the plates. My son said he just got in his truck
hit the key to start it and wham it blew. I looked at everything---could not see or smell anything to give me a clue. Walmart would not change the battery----they said there must be another problem with the truck.
I checked the starter and wiring with a voltmeter could not see anything.
Bought a new battery-----been in for over a week now and everything is fine. I still dont have a clue as to what happened.
Take Care
Arch
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:55:02 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
eventually - all electric - no propane - no Onan - rebuild project is still in progress.
I'll use a 165 amp Leece Neville alternator I happen to have on hand driven with double "V" belts. Leece alternators are available up to 200 amps. I buy units rebuilt by "Arrow" from a parts house. Leece are used in the trucking industry so are available from trucking sources too. Electrodyne builds brushless 12 volt alternators up to 450 amps. Top grade and top price.
Prestolite - Leece and Electrodyne both have web sites for further info.
I installed a Statpower ProSine 2500 watt pure sine wave inverter which includes a top notch 100 amp charger. I have used it enough to think highly of it. One very nice feature is it senses the GMC's total shorepower load
and automatically reduces battery charging to prevent tripping shorepower breakers.
Also have an 8 year old Trace 1500 watt which has been heavily used, seen thousands of sea miles, and never given any trouble. IMO Trace products are excellent too.
Lessons learned so far:
1. If I had been thinking clearly when planning this installation I would have converted to a 24 volt system.
2. 2/0 welding cables from house battery to a 2500 watt inverter are best kept under 4 foot long.
3. At 2500 watts you better have an alternator on line or two golf cart batteries won't last long.
Cheers,
Don Miller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:41:36 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
Eric - Alternator not yet installed. Just finished putting in inverter, batteries and heavy cables.
Will make new brackets and mount alternator where present alternator is It is larger but should fit OK.
Bought a new 3" double groove alternator pulley from a Leece dealer in Norfolk, Va.
Plan to use a matched pair of belts on two grooves to drive water pump, power steering pump and alternator.
The short power steering / water pump belt will be replaced with a belt identical to the one beside it which now drives the alternator. BTW, on the boat I use industrial rather than automotive belts as they seem a better quality with higher hp ratings.
Should have over 100 amps (1300 watts) with engine idling in neutral.
I took some 35mm pictures of the inverter mounted behind the refrigerator but have not finished the roll yet. Will try to get some pix of the alternator too.
Cheers,
Don Miller
75 Glenbrook in pieces
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
------------------------------
Don....I have been through this on my houseboat. In researching the concept, I came across a "formula" that, in essence, lays out the bank size / inverter size relationship. In other words, my 2000 watt inverter/charger "required" a minimum of 880 (reserve) amps of bank capacity. Three years of operation has led me to believe the 880 amps is truly a "minimum". I will try to dig this information up. In may have been in one of Nigel Calder's books, articles, or even in an old RV site, don't remember, but I will locate it. I would say that
2500 watts of inverter/charger will soon kill your bank, requiring replacement of the batteries. Larry Nelson PB
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:04:01 +0100
From: "Donald W. Miller" <millerdw#vaix2.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: House batteries
How right you are Larry, it takes big big batteries unless you are willing to keep an engine running.
We too lived aboard for several years in the extended cruising mode. A continuing problem is our decadent, energy intensive, lifestyle. Need lots of ice cubes on hot days and gotta play with our electronics and powered goodies. Another way of attacking the, "too small house battery problem", is to keep a big alternator on line during times of high energy useage. In our case, it will be our 455 idling when not on shorepower.
I think I have most of Nigel Calder's books. Knows his stuff, does'nt he?
Thanks and cheers,
Don Miller
75 Glennbrook in bits and pieces
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:21:43 -0400
From: davegreenberg1#juno.com
Subject: Re: GMC: House Batteys
Rob, Think about installing a pair of golf cart batteries. Great prices at Sam's club and they probably will last longer than any regular automotive battery. IMHO!
Dave Greenberg
On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:33:19 -0400 "robteed" <robteed#netimation.com>
writes:
>Im going to buy some Batterys for the MH. Is a ACDELCO Sealed 1000/975 good for this? And
> should they be Deep Cycle batterys? What size are You guys running?
>Thanks,
> Rob Teed
-----------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:32:07 -0400
From: "robteed" <robteed#netimation.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: House Batteys
Dave,
Two up front? Also Use these to start the Coach? I plan to put a regular car battery in the Gen
compartment. How much should I expect to pay for Golf cart Batterys?
Thanks,
Rob Teed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:04:04 -0400
From: davegreenberg1#juno.com
Subject: Re: GMC: House Batteys
Rob, you could put your golf carts up front as probably on your erly model this is whee the house battery was located. Seems to me I paid $40-45 each at Sam's Club.
I would keep a separate battery for starting purposes. Golf Cart batterys are deep discharge types not a good choice for a starting battery. Keep them isolated electrically so you don't draw down both battery banks at one time.
Dave Greenberg
----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:32:34 -0400
From: "robteed" <robteed#netimation.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: House Batteys
Thanks Dave,
Sounds good. I have an older friend who has a bus. He told Me what to get. 1000/900 delco batterys. But
they quit making them. I guess I'll try the golf cart batteries.
Rob Teed
74' Painted Desert
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:06:28 EST
From: LNelson208#aol.com
Subject: GMC: New biz + My Plan
1. Here's an idea for a new business. Have someone sew up EXACT seat covers for the original equipment seating (veranda, gaucho, dinette). These could be shipped via UPS and installed by an idiot. Any takers?
2. Here's my plan on 12v power management. I have already installed two new golf cart batteries under the gaucho. I already have a 700 watt inverter / 30a charger combo. These batteries will only supply the inverter, which will be used "on the road" to supply the TV, via the existing 120v. house breaker. This bank will also handle my ham radios. At this time, I will not interconnect this bank with the house bank in the slide out tray next to the still-running-rough genset. I am replacing the two existing house 12v batteries currently in parallel with two golf cart 6v in series. (I couldn't figure out the "current leak" in house bank, about 1.5 a. measured from one of those house batteries. There was nothing on inside the coach, and no current flowing at the bus. Then I pulled the battery tray all the way out, and measured the current where the cable leaves the battery compartment - nothing! The culprit was one of the 12v batteries was putting a load on the other. DUH!
) BTW, I used a 12v amprobe to measure the current, very handy to have. I have already ordered the new STatpower 40+ from West Marine, so out goes a (probably) very good converter for the flea market. (If I provide a connection between the two banks, one charger will fool the other, and nothing will get done. At least that has been my experience in the past.) The new under gaucho bank resides in a marine battery box.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:04:22, -0500
From: JDDP32B#prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: GMC: batt management
Larry
Sounds like you are doing the right stuff. There are a lot of old systems out there on GMC that are paralleling battery banks with out isolators or switches. I just had a SOB friend buy two large 12 volt batt and was not happy when I told him he was headed for problems like you had. I think this list has helped owners under stand these configuration problems.
Gene 76Palm Beach /Or/CA
GMC Technical Information
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:18:22, -0500
From: JDDP32B@prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: GMC: Inverters / single function
- -- [ From: Eugene Fisher * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --
I would like to suggest another plan for providing battery powered AC (inverter) to the GMC. The complicated 110 VAC switching and wiring are probably not worth the effort.
I suggest that it would be better to buy several low power inverters that have their own power switches, AC connectors, and place them at the point of need. I buy these 300 watt simulated sinewave- inverters for $20 from Frys' electronics in CA.
Buy one simulated sinewave inverter of the 1000 watt size, for the heavy loads.
If needed, buy a low power pure-sinewave inverter for the noise sensitive stereo.
Laptop (LT) computers charge an internal battery and do not require a clean power. I have used my Desk top (DT) computer on a simulated sinewave inverter with no problems. However if you are concerned about the power to your computer it is a relatively small load that could run on your stereo inverter.
SIM SINE
Blender 300 X
Can opener 100 X
Coffee Maker 1000 X
Drill 3/8" 500 X
Frying Pan 1000 X
Food mixer 300 X
Hair dryer 1000 X
Iron 1000 X
Microwave 1000 X
Reading lamp 100 X
Television 700 X
Toaster 1500 X
Toaster over 1500 X
Vacuum cleaner 1000 X
VCR 50 X
Stereo 500 X
Computer (LT) 100 X
Computer (DT) 300 X
Soldering Iron 1000 X
Impact wrench 1000 X
From this list you can see you do not need to buy a $1500 sinewave inverter to run your $100 microwave. Most of the AC loads in the Motor Home do not require pure sinewave power. The simulated sinewave inverters are more than adequate for most of the loads and if they create RFI (radio frequency interference) noise turn the invertors off when not in use. The 1000 watt inverters are typically on sale for $300 to $500.
Gene 76Palm Beach /Or/CA
Also, anyone have recommendations on the use (or avoidance) of sealed gel batteries on the inverter battery bank? And lastly, my installer recommends the eventual upgrade of my alternator from the current 105 amp to a rebuilt ambulance alternator.... 200 amp. Not sure if I want to go this far! Ideas?
I've been reading "Living on 12v". Not sure if this is the same as "Managing 12v".... Good stuff regardless...
Thanks all,
Greg Weber
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 00:11:51 -0600
From: "mr.c" <mr.c@twrol.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Inverters / single function
It was easy for me to put in my inverter and to run a line to the power control box and to find the two outlets I needed to have with 120 v. The rest were left as original. I think it has worked for me without having lots of inverters to connect up.
my .02c
Al Chernoff
>Also, anyone have recommendations on the use (or avoidance) of sealed gel batteries on the inverter battery bank?
Providing that you have a charger that will handle them, they should work OK. I decided to use Golf Car batteries because they have more history behind them as a bank of deep cycle batteries. And, they cost less per standby AH.
And lastly, my installer recommends
>the eventual upgrade of my alternator from the current 105 amp to a rebuilt
>ambulance alternator.... 200 amp. Not sure if i want to go this far! Ideas?
>I've been reading "Living on 12v". Not sure if this is the same as "Managing
>12v".... Good stuff regardless...
Well, providing there's no other 12V loads, your 100 amp alternator will charge a 400 AH bank just fine if you switch to a multi-stage regulator. So, I don't see that replacing the alternator really helps. With our existing 2 battery house bank, one hour of engine time will restore 50% of the charge quite well - with a different regulator. If you are not going to replace the exiting regulator you definitely have no reason to switch alternators. BTW, you want to make certain f you do switch to 200 amp alternator that it is rated for 200 amps continuous duty. Many alternators are only rated for a fraction
of the quoted current load on a continuous basis.
Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:46:30 -0800
From: LARRY DTIMOTHY <ltim@bellsouth.net>
Subject: GMC: Wal-Mart!
The previous owner of My 73 Glacier was using 2 batteries wired parallel for spinning the 455 and a single battery on the Onan. I don't like 2 batteries wired together without some manner of checking them
independently without having to disconnect the wiring. I also don't believe two should be required for cranking if everythings working correctly.
The idea I'm toying with is having 3 batteries available with solenoids controlled by dash toggles to shift different batteries to different functions and TEMPORARILY parallel 2 (or even 3?) for short periods.
Just an idea. No action yet.
Timothy
73 Glacier
Pensacola, FL.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:07:18 -0800
From: Phil Swanson <phil@chtree.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Inverters / single function
Gene, Does Fry's carry an inverter any higher that 300 watts? Can inverters be somehow wired in parellel to provide more capacity at one point instead of having boxes all over your GMC?
Phil Swanson
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:19:22 EST
From: Gcbr@aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Inverters / single function
Phil
Take a look at <A HREF="http://www.statpower.com/">Statpower Index Page</A>
Take Care
Arch
-----------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:44:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Inverters / single function
There is a good article in the Motorhome 1999 guide "Dingy towing Special' about the stat power 40+ and they speak glowingly of it. I am in the process of looking for one this morning. The article convinced me.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:07:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
I am going to replace my 12 volt house charger in the coach and am coordinating with the Statpower people on a price for a refurbished model 40. They have it down to $178 US so far and I think I can get lower prices
for multiple buys. the led remote readout is US $38 more.
Anyone interested in one if the price is right?
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
From: Phil Swanson <phil@chtree.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:11:23 -0800
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Tom: You might check out their combination package if you are interested in an inverter along with the Truecharge 40. For me, that's a better deal than just the charger. I do think that the 40+ isn't necessary for the price difference unless you have 3 banks of batteries which the majority of us do not.
Phil Swanson
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:17:02, -0500
From: JDDP32B@prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: Inverters / single function
No you cannot parallel the inverters. They would never be at the same phase and I think there would be lots of arcing and sparking.
If you want just one, Al Chernoff makes the point that almost all of the AC circuits come to the AC breaker box in the GMC and it is relatively easy to make a switching circuit. In this case would be best to buy a
large sinewave inverter. There are some great posts on my webpage that talk about how much battery power you would need,.
My point was that most of my dry camping AC requirements are small and remote from each other. I have one converter in the rear to charge batteries, One small one at the TV/drink stand for the TV and the computer, and soon a 1000 watt under the rear bed to feed the Microwave. I think that is all I need when I don't use the Onan. I am one of those that will always carry the 500 pound onan to run the air cond if we need to.
I like the multi inverters since they have their own switches and AC sockets , no new wires required.
So set your own requirements, the state of the art is good now and not that expensive.
good luck gene
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:55:16 -0500
From: John Wright <powerjon@tm.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Larry,
You would need the 40+ version which can three seperate batterys, the 40 can only charge a 2 battery system.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:58:39 -0600 (CST)
From: hdavis@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
I'm using the 40+ so that we have the three separate circuits. WE're a bit on the power hungry side right now. When we change over to a 3-way fridge it hould get better. But then we'll be adding the PC and the budget goes up.
Henry
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:36:09 -0500
From: "Bartz, Paul" <s9d3452@mail.drms.dla.mil>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Thom:
What is the benefit of adding the battery charger, besides the obvious technology in today's units? Now you have an another piece of equipment to deal with, in addition to your inverter.
Have you considered the Todd Power Source converter-charger ($260), an all in one unit sold by GMC owner Byron Maxwell (maxwell@texas.net) <mailto:maxwell@exas.net)> . He says it's the lowest cost of the three
"switching power supply" converters he knows of. Doesn't it make more sense to update your inverter-charger with current state of the art equipment? Most original one's hum a lot.
Paul Bartz
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:31:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Go to the Statpower site at www.statpower.com and look at the models. I like the statpower products and have looked at both the statpower truecharge 40+ (written up in 1999 Motorhome) and the model 40 its predecessor. In my estimation the truecharge 40 is an excellent charger without a couple of the bells and whistles of the 40+. It will do everything we need for a big big reduction in price. the 40+ costs $460. I have negotiated the price for the statpower truecharge 40 directly with Statpower and they are willing to give us a sizable discount if we buy 9 units. the cost will be US $158 each plus approximately $12 for brokerage and shipping fees. the units weigh about 8 3/4# each. We would have to add a UPS charge from my house to yours of about $9.00 depending on where you are located.
If anyone wants these units for that price I need a firm committment.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:12:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
I have rethought the bulk buy of the statpower truecharge 40 models and now think that we would be making a lot of work for ourselves by saving less than $10.each. We can buy the units direct from Statpower for CDN 269.95 which equals $175 US. In a bulk buy they want me to pay direct at an exchange rate that would equal approx $158 each. when adding the various UPS rates from my house to yours it would bring it up to about $168. for $7. each I think it is to much trouble. How would everyone feel about ordering the units direct from Statpower at www.statpower.com?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:29:34 -0500
From: "Bartz, Paul" <s9d3452@mail.drms.dla.mil>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Thom:
Are you saying then that it is the battery charger portion of our original inverter that hums??? If not, then I don't understand, because I thought two functions (i. e. inverter and charger) are in the original unit, but
handled electrically?????. Otherwise, if you just disconnect the battery charging capability from the original inverter and substitute a new charger, you're still left with electrical hum.
As I understand the Statpower unit you're proposing, is solely a battery charger, right????
Am I missing something????
Paul
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:59:46 -0700
From: dlowry@silcom.com (Dave Lowry)
Subject: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Tom,
I have 1 battery in back that is isolated for the generator, 1 up front to start the engine, and a pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries (also up front) for the coach, and want to replace my OEM converter/charger. I'm pretty
sure I need the 40, rather than the 40+, but need to do a little more research to know for sure. Assuming I need the 40, I'd be interested in a unit with the led monitor.
Dave Lowry, '76 Royale, Santa Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Heinz that would probably be a better way to go as you are in a far better postion than I am being so close to the company. They do have the other products you mentioned. I have been talking to Christine Berka,
<CBerka@statpower.com>, at 1-800-670-0707, extension 2177. I didn't realize until after I sent the e-mail to everyone that it was more complicated than just ordering them and having them shipped to me. thought NAFTA eliminated all of that.
UPS from washington state would definetly be the way to go.
The truecharger 40 comes in units of 3 to a case. Price for 3units, CDN 809.85, for 6 CDN 1538.72, for 9, CDN 2186.60. Remote LED panels are US $39.95 each.
would not be offended in the least if you would like to negotiate and finalize the deal.
I think the Statpower Truecharge 40 is an excellent replacement for the old ferroresonant charger in our coaches. it has the advantage of smart charging our house battery to maximum charge and prevents sulfating of
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:18:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
considering that the 40+ is now being quoted at $460 american I think it is a fantastic deal at about $158
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:18:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Fw: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Most of it is hold overs from what Christine told me. New products that have scratches etc. They now only sell the 40+
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:24:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
No the original GMc had a 120 volt to 12 volt converter and battery charger. Its output is strictly 12 volts. The statpower unit would replace it entirely
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:43:23 -0600 (CST)
From: hdavis@ix.netcom.com
Subject: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger vs 40 plus
The TC 40 charges gel or flooded, deep-cycle lead acid batteries from 200-400 ampere-hrs. Includes microprocessor control, 3 step charging, a battery chemistry selector switch, and 2 bank output.
The plus adds
1. battery type selections for sealed (gel), conventional flooded (wet), and Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries.
2. Additional control over the charging process: select 3-step (bulk/absorption/float) or 2-step (bulk/absorption/off) depending on battery. Select 13.5 volt fixed to use as a pure DC power supply
3. optional automatic temperature compensation
4. equalization mode to help reduce sulfation
5. a 21 day cycle when connected to shore power to recharge batteries (top up) automatically
6. 3 banks instead of 2
1. The plus version is preferred if you are going to use AGM batteries. I chose wet batteries and could live without the plus if I wanted to. There's no advantage there.
2. The additional control over the chraging process is nice but not required. I happen to like it since we use our batteries very heavily.
3. OK. THis saves me from opening the electrical compartment door and flipping a switch.
4. This should extend the life of my batteries due to the deep discharge/charge cycles I use.
5. Well, I don't leave the coach sitting for this long. So, it's of little value
6. Split house, engine and a second (as yet not installed) house battery. The real reason I bought the 40+, but I could have rigged mechanical switches. I wanted the convenience.
For the added cost you can afford to buy two sets of golf car batteries more than what the plus would require.
Do you need the additional features? I don't think so, unless you're a very heavy user of the house batteries. Even then you can use the non-plus version just fine. Using an equalizer has its own set of issues that you have to decide to handle. For example, halogen lights don't like the substantially higher voltage. Some electronics may be damaged by the equalization charge. But it can extend the useful life of your batteries.
Without my particular set of requirements, I would have been more than happy with the straight 40.
Henry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:48:18 -0500
From: John Wright <powerjon@tm.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Dave,
To do a 3 battery system you need the 40+, the 40 is for a 2 a battery system.
J.R.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:29:46 -0500
From: Zachary Zehnacker <zakz@erols.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
J.R.,
I believe that since the Onan has an alternator to charge its own isolated battery, the 2 bank charger should be enough. The charger only has to charge the starting and house banks. The 3rd bank for the Onan would not be connected to the charger at all and would rely on the Onan to charge it itself. This would also avoid the problem that someone on the list reported about the Onan alternator kicking the Statpower out of charge mode without having to modify the Onan.
Zak
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:54:16, -0500
From: JDDP32B@prodigy.com (MR EUGENE R FISHER)
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
You can read the post on my web page about how bad the Onan is as a charger, but it also shows you can do away with the Onan bat and use the house bat to start it.
gene
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:26:24 -0700
From: Darren Paget <paget@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
By replacing the converter/charger with a charger only will make your entire 12v system run solely off the battery. The stock system used your converter to change 110v to 12v thus bypassing your battery. The charger system will keep your battery charged while it is plugged into shore power. Darren
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:53:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger vs 40 plus
Dave, there seems to be some confusion relative to how 120 volt AC and 12 volts DC is used by the coach. There was no 120 Volt AC INVERTER to change 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC on the coach as original equipment. In addition there is no provision for you to "manually switch from shore power to generator when maintaining my batteries from shore power instead of the engine's alternator" unless you are talking about unplugging the external power cord from shore power and plugging it into the motor generator receptacle to switch to generator power. I can't understand what you are doing here "if I've had the Onan running to provide power to the A/C (the only thing I use the Onan for), I need to flip a couple of breakers before shore power will charge the two 6v. coach batteries." There is no provision to do this in the original wiring for the coach.
>
I guess I am confused relative to how many batteries everyone has. I know that I only have 2, the auxiliary battery next to the Onan, and the main battery. As a note, two golf batteries connected in series acting as the
auxiliary battery are considered one battery by the charger.
1. The coach can only get 120 volts AC from one source at a time either:
a. Shore power (the external power cord is unplugged from the motor generator receptacle and plugged into shore power) or
b. The Onan generator(if the external power cord is left plugged into the motor generator receptacle)
2. You cannot get 120 volts AC from both sources at the same time.
3. Either 120 volt AC source (shore power or generator) supplies 120 volts AC to the air conditioner, water heater and AC receptacles in the coach and also the 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC CONVERTER that supplies all of the internal lights, furnace etc. This CONVERTER in turn also charges the auxiliary (living area) batter BUT NOT THE MAIN (automotive) BATTERY. The isolation diodes on the engine firewall prevents that.
Now lets talk about the automotive battery. The alternator has a built in temperature sensitive charger to independently charge both the house battery and the engine battery. It is able to do this because the output of the alternator is split by the isolation diodes so that two independent outputs are provided to charge each one independly.
The original converter does a poor job of charging the auxilary battery since it never puts our a high enough voltage to get the battery up to a full charge (the alternator has to be running to do that) and has no
provision for a float charge. contrary to what several have said the statpower 40 will provide 12 volts DC
to the coach without drawing from the auxiliary battery if the load does not exceed 40 amps.
The optional remote LED panel indicates the charger status (float or charging), output in increasing amp increments, and battery voltage in .3 volt increment. it costs $39.95
In my opinion the Statpower Truecharge 40 is a perfect replacement for our old technology ferroresonant converter. In addition it has features that cost many hundreds of dollars more than the nearest competitor. It is a steal in refurbished form for about $175. My coach only has two batteries and the 40+ would be of no additional use to me.
Hope this clears up the misconceptions.
At 11:35 AM 12/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks J. R.
>
>OK folks, let's see if I've got this straight; If I want the converter/charger to separately maintain all three batteries (considering the 2 6v. batts. as one), I'll need the 40+. But if I only want it to maintain the coach and starting batteries, I can get by with the 40 (not 40+). Here's my logic for possibly excluding the Onan's battery:
>
>1) The battery back at the generator is now charged by the Onan when it's running and/or the engine's alternator when we're under way. If the Onan's battery should ever be run down the point it would not start the Onan, I could always start the engine, and then start the Onan off the alternator.
>
>2) The Statpower could be wired to maintain both the house and starting batteries as well as provide clean 12 volt power whenever we're plugged into shore power.
>
>Here's my current situation: I live in Santa Barbara (no freezing). My coach run up to full operating temperature at least once every 6 weeks. I am plugged in to shore power whenever the coach is at home.
>I understand that the Statpower 40 will do a better job of maintaining my house and engine batteries. But will it also automatically switch between shore power and generator power as the source of power to the converter and A/C, instead of our having to do it manually? I've checked the Statpower internet page, but can't find details on the 40 (not 40+).
>
>Hope I've clearly stated my questions.
>
>Comments..........
>Dave Lowry, '76 Royale, Santa Barbara
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:31:32 -0800
From: "Heinz Wittenbecher" <heinz@bytedesigns.com>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower 40 / Shore/genset switchover
Dave,
Jim sells a switchover relay that has a built-in time delay, i.e. it gives enough time for the genset to come up to speed and then switches the coach from shore to genset.
Easy to wire up. Basically the relay selects input for the main fuse box.
Get the 30 amp one. (There is also a 50 amp but it's big)
I have that setup in my Transmode but the delay went out so I used the delay circuit board from the setup I got from Jim. Of course shortly afterwards the genset gave up altogether but that's another (unrelated) story.
With ref to a new GenSet I'm still hoping that Jim is making progress on an upgrade kit for the newer Onan. **** Jim, you listening ??? *** :-)
Heinz
'76 Transmode
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:29:35 -0500
From: "Bartz, Paul" <s9d3452@mail.drms.dla.mil>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Darren:
What you said was what I was trying to point out and the fallacy that I see with replacing the original converter by installing a charger. I know that today's units offer clean 12 v power whether from either 12 v (battery) or a
120 v converter systems.
However, beyond that, what advantage(s) are there to going with a charger type unit vs. a modern converter that efficiently charges and is also capable of producing "clean" 12 v power?
Paul Bartz
From: Darren Paget [mailto:paget@telusplanet.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
By replacing the converter/charger with a charger only will make your entire 12v system run solely off the battery. The stock system used your converter to change 110v to 12v thus bypassing your battery. The charger system will keep your battery charged while it is plugged into shore power. Darren
From: Thomas G. Warner [mailto:warner@borg.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
This one replaces the one that hums and has the latest technology.
At 10:36 AM 12/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
Thom:
What is the benefit of adding the battery charger, besides the obvious technology in today's units? Now you have an another piece of equipment to deal with, in addition to your inverter. Have you considered the Todd Power Source converter-charger ($260), an all in one unit sold by GMC owner Byron Maxwell (maxwell@texas.net <mailto:maxwell@texas.net> ) He says it's the lowest cost of the three
"switching power supply" converters he knows of. Doesn't it make more sense to update your inverter-charger with current state of the art equipment? Most original one's hum a lot.
Paul Bartz
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:44:05 EST
From: GONEMAD5@aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: inverter cable size
Just bought a Statpower ProSine 1800 inverter, which looks like a nice quality piece. One problem however. My electronically-inclined friend who advised and assisted me on the install bought 4-gauge cable for the (2) 10-foot runs from the battery: one positive, one negative. Whenever i power-on my 110v stereo amplifier, which is rated for 220 watts, the start-up surge is putting the inverter into reset mode. The inverter is rated for surges up to 2900 watts. Statpower tech support is saying that the 4 gauge cable is the problem, since the recommended cable for a 10-foot run would be #0/4!! To every electronically-inclined person i speak to, this sounds like overkill, since the voltage loss due to using 4 gauge cable is pretty minor on a 10 foot run, and certainly not enough to make the 12 volts die down to 10.5v, which would trigger a reset on this inverter, but perhaps this inverter is even more sensitive than the manufacture cares to admit (?). #0/4 cable thickness seems
ridiculous, and not very easy to run thru the living compartment, and then thru the firewall.
Anybody using inverters of this size have any recommendations on what might be a happy-medium cable size to use, between #4 and #0/4?
Of course tech support knows what's "best" for their products, but often the overkill factor just seems a bit much.
Any suggestions appreciated.
regards,
Greg Weber
'78 Eleganza II
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:53:46 -0500
From: Patrick Flowers <patri63@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: inverter cable size
Greg,
Might not be the answer your looking for, but I understand you're much better off to mount the inverter near the batteries and use short DC cable runs. This might make your AC wiring more complicated, but it's the best way to go. That's why most people put golf cart batteries in the generator compartment and the inverter next to the AC breaker panel.
As far as your electronics expert, keep in mind that handling large amounts of DC current is a different animal. Go with the manufacturer's rec's.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:36:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas G. Warner" <warner@borg.com>
Subject: RE: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Maybe I did not explain it clearly. the statpower Truecharge 40 is a converter. it not only charges the batteries but produces 12V DC for the coach. It totally replaces the old converter and retains all of the original functions plus more.
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:32:42 EST
From: Adohen@aol.com
Subject: GMC: Whether you think you can or think you can't-- you're right! Go-OFART
Hi Gmc!
I went out and bought stock in Statpower today. I thought if I bought stock, I might be able to understand what was being talked about. I made another web page last night of my GMC. Lots of pictures, someday I'll get good at it and make the thumbnails work! Any how to's would be appreciated. <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/adohen2/page/index.htm">GMC PHOTOS 12/16/98 </A>
Scott Adohen@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:30:48 -0700
From: Darren Paget <paget@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
My understanding is, and I may be wrong, that by using a good quality stand alone charger is the best way to keep your coach batteries in top shape. Most charger/converters will "gas your batteries". Meaning that there is no staged charge. The charger/converter will keep charging at an accelerated rate with no "float charge". Most c/c will give a constant charge of 16v which over a long period of time, i.e.. boondocking, will evaporate the water out of your battery, (gassing). By having, only, a charger this will give your battery a three stage charge. Bulk charge @ 14.5v. Absorption charge @ 13.75v. Float charge @ 13.4v. The other nice thing about most inverter/chargers is that they are programmable to your specific battery or configuration. This info. refers
specifically to TRACE INVERTERS but is applicable to others. Darren
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:17:27 EST
From: Gcbr@aol.com
Subject: Re: GMC: Statpower truecharger 40 smart charger
Paul
The problem here is that the Stat unit is good for 40 amps. It will put it where it is needed. If you are using 10 amps in the coach it will only charge 30 amps. On almost all converters they only have a 3 amp charger and supply 30 to 50 amps to the coach. If you want to charge your house battery while you are boondocking it
will take for ever. With the Stat unit turn off everything in the coach and you will be charging your batteries with 40 amps not 3. You can bring back a 2 golf cart house battery